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True Galaxies _ Pikeman _ Pikeman are best in melee.

Posted by: izizlight Mar 16 2007, 04:31 PM

I think pikeman are by far the best class in melee, can deal out a lot of damage in a area and great dps. Good for a subclass to grind out jedi with too if your planning to go with the path to jedi Any one else agree?

Posted by: Xxsyrusvb Mar 16 2007, 04:40 PM

As much as my heart wants to believe you, my mind knows that pike isnt the strongest offensively or defensivly or anywhere in between.

I still love pikeman, But besides area damage, we are a little lacking.

Posted by: Polishmafia Mar 16 2007, 04:53 PM

Im going to have to go with tkm.

Posted by: dembonz00 Mar 16 2007, 06:57 PM

Swordsman... without a doubt - Pikeman is my #2 choice though.

Posted by: Mag Mar 16 2007, 07:22 PM

its all a matter of opinion, aswell as what equipment you have, your skill to control your character, and what template you use. I would like to see pikeman looked as more of the defensive profession its always should have been.

Posted by: kerplunk9d Mar 19 2007, 11:16 PM

It's pretty much known that pikemen have less damage mitigration then TKM and HS, (im pretty sure they have more then fencer), their main I defense stat block is pretty much the worst of the 4 other melee profession's defense stats (dodge, counter, combat equi), and need a little bit better gear then the other 3 melee professions (aka more speed tapes and stronger weapons)...

However once you get through all that stuff, hell yea we are a pretty good class. With a reasonable LVA and capped speed we can deal out a hell of an amount of damage, are a jedi/djk's best opponent, can loot some really sick fire/poison lances, and have arguably the best aoe attack in the game.

Not to mention, our animations are the best of all 4 classes tongue.gif

Posted by: gamergirlx Mar 20 2007, 12:12 AM

ya, it's hard to beat a well placed dizzy/kd area attack

Posted by: Tadde Mar 20 2007, 02:51 AM

i think swordsman is better but pike would probally me the #3 while Fencer is 2

Posted by: Bonafide Mar 20 2007, 12:23 PM

with all the right gear swordsman is #1 in melee.

Posted by: pife Mar 20 2007, 10:50 PM

In my opinion

PvE:
Swordsman
Pikeman
TKM
Fencer

PvP:
I can't really say, any profession is good if mixed with the proper defenses.

Posted by: gamergirlx Mar 20 2007, 11:02 PM

Pikeman always seemed like it was sitting somewhere in the middle of the melee classes in terms of damage dealt or toughness. TKMs and fencers seemed to be better at taking a beating, TKMs also had better dps if I recall, but swordsman was the best in terms of sheer damage per hit. I always figured our edge was in our area attacks and the DoTs that were more common to pikes than other weapons.

Though most tend to want to lump melee professions into either tanks or damage dealers, pikeman is a bit tricky to throw into either category. We can be decent tanks and still deal out some good damage numbers but the things that make our profession unique lie elsewhere.

Posted by: Xxsyrusvb Mar 25 2007, 09:50 PM

Offense:
Swordsman
TKM
Pike
Fencer

Defense:
Fencer
TKM
Swordsman
Pike...

Block just plain sux compared to the rest. If someone with the same talent, same equipment played all the melee's they would see the list above is quite reliable.

Me, Ill me going Pike because I love the underdog, and Crowd Control is sweet imo.

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Mar 27 2007, 05:54 PM

(Xxsyrusvb;69850)
Offense:
Swordsman
TKM
Pike
Fencer

Defense:
Fencer
TKM
Swordsman
Pike...

Block just plain sux compared to the rest. If someone with the same talent, same equipment played all the melee's they would see the list above is quite reliable.

Me, Ill me going Pike because I love the underdog, and Crowd Control is sweet imo.


Offence: Pike hits harder than TKM
Defence: We have better def that swords

Who says pike is the underdog ?

Posted by: Xxsyrusvb Mar 27 2007, 07:12 PM

We are definetly not 2nd in Offense. You might have a point with the defense but that still makes up

3rd place in both offence and defense. Maybe im wrong, but i definetly we are the middle pack/underdogs of melee. Although, its a different toon since in a CC catagory we would own.

Posted by: AcMav Mar 27 2007, 09:33 PM

I have to say Pikes is one of those professions that can be extremely good when you pour alot of funds into it, or suck if you dont. I Spent millions on tapes/axes before i was anywhere decent, and i had to rely on a tough set of armor and my heals to cover me. However at low levels and without a decent pike, Pikes is kinda mediocre.
I Once came close to winning 1 vs 1 with a Jedi using pikes because i had a pretty decent action fire and was just leg hitting over and over while trying to keep him kd/intim2. However i got knocked down and it was lights out before i knew it. Most of the time as Pikes i'd just run into battle with my mindfire pike, run in do a Dizzy/Kd, then switch to my Vibroknuckler and start spamming head hit 3/Lunge2/Dizzy/Stun/Intim2 over and over to someone until i got the kill.

Posted by: kerplunk9d Apr 1 2007, 01:46 PM

actually I think on this damage calc site I once used to get my pike speed tapes down and other such things it mentioned that swords were second in damage mitigration and following that were pikes. TK was first by a long shot.

Posted by: Blue Apr 1 2007, 03:55 PM

the biggest problem pike has is that it depends too much on looted weapons.. i don't think i've ever seen a pvp worth crafted pike and i've crafted a lot of melee weapons and was never able to make a decent pike.

Posted by: pife Apr 1 2007, 03:58 PM

(Blue;72147)
the biggest problem pike has is that it depends too much on looted weapons.. i don't think i've ever seen a pvp worth crafted pike and i've crafted a lot of melee weapons and was never able to make a decent pike.


How about an LVA of VL with nym enchanced vibro motors? They didn't do much for vibro knucklers but might have a higher modifier in Polearms, if thats possible, i was never a WS.

Posted by: kerplunk9d Apr 1 2007, 07:43 PM

well the thing is people could either try to loot really nice motors to get a reasonable pike... or they could go ns hunting to loot DoT pikes and awsome LVA's... however I actually enjoyed this method of getting my weapons compared to killing krayts or the acklay (theres a whole lot of night sisters and only 1 acklay).

Posted by: Beebz Apr 2 2007, 10:22 AM

ahhh nightsister, i dread to think how many times they blew my bike up, i was glad i use to hold a crate of bikes with me tongue.gif

Posted by: Blue Apr 5 2007, 05:19 AM

(pife;72151)
How about an LVA of VL with nym enchanced vibro motors? They didn't do much for vibro knucklers but might have a higher modifier in Polearms, if thats possible, i was never a WS.


the problem is that those used 3-4 identical motors, so you needed to loot +1 enhancer of what you needed and there were not that many of those sets but even then i'm not sure it would make much of a diference never actually made and enhance pike

Posted by: antares Apr 6 2007, 06:51 PM

Depends, Swordsman was always #1 in raw damage output on a single opponent, while Pikes was best for tearing apart multiples. A 1k+ damage pike & ph3 on a KD'd mob would make it a tough call, though.

Posted by: Colest Apr 25 2007, 08:51 PM

TKM was the best PvP profession in melee Swordsman was the best PvE profession. Pikeman was the in between one. And stun batons aside fencer wasn't that great at PvP.

Posted by: antares Apr 26 2007, 03:56 PM

(Darxun Xanos;82862)
A lot of people used swordsman for the finishing blows, simply because of their power - as you said.

In my experienced, I encountered a lot of fencers and teras kasi artists. I rarely encountered pikeman.


A rare breed for a while, with a couple of brief surges in population because of mind fire looted pikes, and only because of that.

Posted by: Arrillion Apr 28 2007, 04:39 AM

pike fighting looks better then swordfighting

Posted by: bacons May 31 2007, 12:05 AM

if you have a good damage pike then you can area farm in some nice places like geo caves

Posted by: Iacemoe May 31 2007, 06:39 PM

(kerplunk9d;67488)
It's pretty much known that pikemen have less damage mitigration then TKM and HS, (im pretty sure they have more then fencer), their main I defense stat block is pretty much the worst of the 4 other melee profession's defense stats (dodge, counter, combat equi), and need a little bit better gear then the other 3 melee professions (aka more speed tapes and stronger weapons)...

However once you get through all that stuff, hell yea we are a pretty good class. With a reasonable LVA and capped speed we can deal out a hell of an amount of damage, are a jedi/djk's best opponent, can loot some really sick fire/poison lances, and have arguably the best aoe attack in the game.

Not to mention, our animations are the best of all 4 classes tongue.gif


Oh you're not kidding.

When the CU came out and all those lovely animations were gone I about cried. THey turned all those acrobatic and powerful moves into a series of /pokes.

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jun 2 2007, 05:29 PM

(Colest;82767)
TKM was the best PvP profession in melee Swordsman was the best PvE profession. Pikeman was the in between one. And stun batons aside fencer wasn't that great at PvP.


did u play and experience all of these mellee proffesions ? u say TKM was the best /giggle and fencer is the worste /rofl

No one mellee proff could be named the "best", the equipment and player made the proff, experience and knowing what you are doing is the key.

Where one TKM would win a fight, another TKM would lose the same fight...

Posted by: Colest Jun 4 2007, 10:53 PM

DOTs and 90% comp aside, TKMs roll use when it comes to melee. They have a dizzy+kd in the SAME MOVE. And they get much better defense then us. Yes we are the best at AOEs, but I see us as the Carbineer of Melee tbh.

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jun 24 2007, 08:34 PM

(Colest;98841)
DOTs and 90% comp aside, TKMs roll use when it comes to melee. They have a dizzy+kd in the SAME MOVE. And they get much better defense then us. Yes we are the best at AOEs, but I see us as the Carbineer of Melee tbh.


The very reason why TK is bad, name a non-jedi pvper who doesnt use comp armor.

Posted by: Kylvar Jun 25 2007, 05:21 PM

(Pegaso Platoon;111252)
The very reason why TK is bad, name a non-jedi pvper who doesnt use comp armor.


Indeed, 2 evenly matched players, 1 TKM, 1 MFencer going head to head would result in the TKM getting killed. High level comp armor (which is all any serious pvp'er would wear) kills TKMs damage. Even a MPikemen w/ a good DoT pike or 2 would probably beat an equally geared TKM.

MPikemen didn't shine until they got their looted pikes. But top level pvp'ers would have those.

TKM was a good proffession, but not as "godly" as people made it out to be. And at high level pvp, it was possibly the worst of the melee profs.

Posted by: Krusty TheClown Jun 25 2007, 05:54 PM

(Kylvar;111823)
Indeed, 2 evenly matched players, 1 TKM, 1 MFencer going head to head would result in the TKM getting killed. High level comp armor (which is all any serious pvp'er would wear) kills TKMs damage. Even a MPikemen w/ a good DoT pike or 2 would probably beat an equally geared TKM.

MPikemen didn't shine until they got their looted pikes. But top level pvp'ers would have those.

TKM was a good profession, but not as "godly" as people made it out to be. And at high level pvp, it was possibly the worst of the melee profs.

People shouldn't have been using TKM versus someone in comp armor in the first place, but if you were going to you need a high dmg vk in the 300s. Only thing I used tk for was tanking and dizzy/kding, everything else I relied on my rifles. Mind you my pvp rating was 1915 so I think I know what I'm talking about. Fencer vs TKM is totally dependent upon who was the tkm and fencer either could win.

Posted by: Colest Jun 26 2007, 02:04 PM

(Pegaso Platoon;111252)
The very reason why TK is bad, name a non-jedi pvper who doesnt use comp armor.


TBH, I don't even count my experience with 90% armor as PvP. It was dumb, repetitive and clearly game-breaking to many classes and aspects. Argue with me if you must but that is my opinion and I won't say anything more about it.

So that being said, I count my PvP experiences during the first year or so when you could PvP with or without armor. During those days, TKMs would roll us Pikeman as they had faster attack speed, a working defense mod (block broke after a few publishes), and Dizzy+KD in one move. You could win as a Pikeman but it wasn't so much skill involved as it was luck. Get off a dizzy on them then KD them, a polearm hit 3 to an action pool following up with a leg hit would do just about anyone in... God I miss Pikeman sad.gif

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jul 9 2007, 06:53 PM

(Kylvar;111823)
Indeed, 2 evenly matched players, 1 TKM, 1 MFencer going head to head would result in the TKM getting killed. High level comp armor (which is all any serious pvp'er would wear) kills TKMs damage. Even a MPikemen w/ a good DoT pike or 2 would probably beat an equally geared TKM.

MPikemen didn't shine until they got their looted pikes. But top level pvp'ers would have those.

TKM was a good proffession, but not as "godly" as people made it out to be. And at high level pvp, it was possibly the worst of the melee profs.


finally, i wuv wu (not literally ohmy.gifo:). Your one of the few people who doesn't see TKA as an "ubber" proff. The last bit is sooooo true. A brain i sense in you tongue.gif

(Colest;112503)
TBH, I don't even count my experience with 90% armor as PvP. It was dumb, repetitive and clearly game-breaking to many classes and aspects. Argue with me if you must but that is my opinion and I won't say anything more about it.

So that being said, I count my PvP experiences during the first year or so when you could PvP with or without armor. During those days, TKMs would roll us Pikeman as they had faster attack speed, a working defense mod (block broke after a few publishes), and Dizzy+KD in one move. You could win as a Pikeman but it wasn't so much skill involved as it was luck. Get off a dizzy on them then KD them, a polearm hit 3 to an action pool following up with a leg hit would do just about anyone in... God I miss Pikeman sad.gif



Just imagine, armor without 80+ kinetic resistance, how many would go TKA then, wouldn't that be game breaking ? TKA killing anything and anyone...

Posted by: Iacemoe Jul 10 2007, 12:13 AM

(Pegaso Platoon;121151)
Just imagine, armor without 80+ kinetic resistance, how many would go TKA then, wouldn't that be game breaking ? TKA killing anything and anyone...


I still think a pikeman with a good damage LVA would put out more DPS than a TKM would. Heck we even have AP2.

The point is that when armor got that high, in terms of resistance, it didn't really matter what type of weapon you had (aside from stun and LS), you just couldn't do that much damage.

TKM will be the FOTM at launch and for a few months after because they don't need tapes to speed cap. After tapes start dropping for other profs, TKM will be less popular and we will see more diversity.

Posted by: Colest Jul 10 2007, 05:13 PM

(Pegaso Platoon;121151)
Just imagine, armor without 80+ kinetic resistance, how many would go TKA then, wouldn't that be game breaking ? TKA killing anything and anyone...


Without 80% resist??? I don't think you realize what you are saying. TKM without vibro knucklers did probably about 300-400 dmg to a standing target AT MOST (I can be sure of this because I was just on SWGEmu last night dueling a TKM). With 80% resist not only does it completely **** over any other direct damage relying profession (such as Pikeman (pre-DOT era), Swordsman, Carbineer, CH, etc) but that apparently "game-breaking" 300-400 dmg TKMs are spitting out is reduced to 60-80 dmg. That coupled with the counter-attack and dodge mods, food, PSGs, AND the insane regen mods from 3k buffs completely NULLIFIES any direct damage profession and puts everyone back into the "target mind or use DOTs that get around armor resist" mindset, ergo putting the game back into the atrocity it was at the end of Pre-CU.

Posted by: Kylvar Jul 14 2007, 03:25 AM

(Pegaso Platoon;121151)
finally, i wuv wu (not literally ohmy.gifo:). Your one of the few people who doesn't see TKA as an "ubber" proff. The last bit is sooooo true. A brain i sense in you tongue.gif


Well, I was a TKM, so I do know a bit about them tongue.gif. But seriously, TKM was a solid profession, and I did well with it. However, against top of the line PvP'ers with top end comp...you can forget about doing much damage. Not that all the melee profs didn't have their problems.

Posted by: Soulreaver87 Jul 14 2007, 03:45 AM

I like this debate, I would have to say that Pikeman have the lowest defenses next to SM. However SM paired with any of the melee is probably more deadly than a non-uber lancer user.

Posted by: Colest Jul 14 2007, 09:37 AM

Half of pikeman's problem is block is so incredibly worthless. States still stick and we don't even avoid ALL of the damage like other melee users do. It's somewhat ridiculous and it is something I hope gets revised after launch if snow and his gents doesn't figure something out.

Posted by: Kylvar Jul 14 2007, 10:55 AM

A working block would be nice...and Soul, Pikemen's defenses were pretty good actually. We didn't have the toughness of TKA, but we had good state defenses.

Posted by: fluor Jul 14 2007, 11:13 AM

block works like it should work... it does exactly like the description said, there are others(not in pikeman) that don't.

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jul 14 2007, 11:55 AM

(Colest;123832)
Half of pikeman's problem is block is so incredibly worthless. States still stick and we don't even avoid ALL of the damage like other melee users do. It's somewhat ridiculous and it is something I hope gets revised after launch if snow and his gents doesn't figure something out.


We are all here for pre-cu, right ? because we enjoy the old system...

Its seems that you want quite a few things changing so the game becomes more "balanced" and theres more equality amongst the melee proffs... Not to burst ya bubble m8, but these changes will bring along and new CU, wouldnt they ?

Snow' and his men have already stated, it will be as close as possible to the pre-cu experience, they will not be changing anything like u wish.

Posted by: Davik Jul 14 2007, 01:01 PM

I just loved the area attack, and it had the best dots around. So it had it's postives. But def. not best.

Posted by: Soulreaver87 Jul 14 2007, 01:24 PM

Swordsman Defenses:

Counterattack +100
Defense vs Blind +10
Defense vs Dizzy +20
Defense vs Intimidate +20
Defense vs Knockdown +25
Defense vs Posture Change +10
Defense vs Stun +50
Melee Defense +20
Melee Mitigation +3
Two-handed Melee Toughness +43
Ranged Defense +15



Polearm Defenses:

Block +115
Defense vs Blind +20
Defense vs Dizzy +40
Defense vs Knockdown +20
Defense vs Posture Change +30
Defense vs Stun +50
Melee Defense +30
Polearm Toughness +26
Melee Mitigation +3
Ranged Defense +25


Polearm Pros:
+20 more Def vs Dizzy
+10 more Def vs Blind
+10 more Melee def
+10 more Ranged def
+20 more Def vs Posture change
Area Knockdown
Serious DoT Potential (NS and Janta Lances)

Cons: Only Kinetic Damage

Swordsman Pros:
+17 more class Toughness
+5 more Def vs Knockdown
Most Damaging Melee Class
Has Mind Hits
Some DoT Potential (Nym's blade and other smaller two handed swords looted)
High Blast Damage
Swordsman has Def vs Intimidate +20, which is a substantial benefit, Polearm doesn't.

Cons: It dabs in every state defense, but only a small amount compared to Polearms.


Whether or not Counterattack or Block is better I do not know.

Posted by: Kylvar Jul 14 2007, 01:35 PM

(Soulreaver87;123889)
Swordsman Defenses:

Counterattack +100
Defense vs Blind +10
Defense vs Dizzy +20
Defense vs Intimidate +20
Defense vs Knockdown +25
Defense vs Posture Change +10
Defense vs Stun +50
Melee Defense +20
Melee Mitigation +3
Two-handed Melee Toughness +43
Ranged Defense +15



Polearm Defenses:

Block +115
Defense vs Blind +20
Defense vs Dizzy +40
Defense vs Knockdown +20
Defense vs Posture Change +30
Defense vs Stun +50
Melee Defense +30
Polearm Toughness +26
Melee Mitigation +3
Ranged Defense +25


Polearm Pros:
+20 more Def vs Dizzy
+10 more Def vs Blind
+10 more Melee def
+10 more Ranged def
+20 more Def vs Posture change
Area Knockdown
Serious DoT Potential (NS and Janta Lances)

Cons: Only Kinetic Damage

Swordsman Pros:
+17 more class Toughness
+5 more Def vs Knockdown
Most Damaging Melee Class
Has Mind Hits
Some DoT Potential (Nym's blade and other smaller two handed swords looted)
High Blast Damage
Swordsman has Def vs Intimidate +20, which is a substantial benefit, Polearm doesn't.

Cons: It dabs in every state defense, but only a small amount compared to Polearms.


Whether or not Counterattack or Block is better I do not know.


Pikemen could do Electricity Damage as well, and could also do energy damage if they made a NSEL.

Posted by: Kylvar Jul 14 2007, 01:46 PM

Double Post :/

Posted by: Colest Jul 14 2007, 02:41 PM

(Pegaso Platoon;123865)
We are all here for pre-cu, right ? because we enjoy the old system...

Its seems that you want quite a few things changing so the game becomes more "balanced" and theres more equality amongst the melee proffs... Not to burst ya bubble m8, but these changes will bring along and new CU, wouldnt they ?

Snow' and his men have already stated, it will be as close as possible to the pre-cu experience, they will not be changing anything like u wish.


ROFLMAO. Yeah that's it I wanna bring about a new CU that's exactly what I want. I call for a little more usefulness out of block (considering its purpose compares not to CA or Dodge) and you claim that I am making the game unbalanced and I am promoting a bunch of game changes? Do NOT put words in my mouth and read my posts before you try to cut me down. Sorry if that was somewhat of a flame but there is nothing that pisses me off more then a person who says that change will lead to CU. ESPECIALLY on a TG forum of all places.... /rantoff

Either or, there is no way you can convince me block was anything beyond scarcely useful. And I, for one, don't see the point in uselessness. Hell might as well break a good mod then make a useless one IMO.

(fluor;123848)
block works like it should work... it does exactly like the description said, there are others(not in pikeman) that don't.


Fluor I respect you so I will not turn to anything other then a factual rebuttal. Fact is, the description for the block mod is "increases the chance of blocking an oncoming attack." No where in that description does it say "will still take 50% dmg" so I don't think you can really argue that block is working as it is described. And as logical and knowledgeable as you are, you must realize how god-awefully worthless block was. Not only did it not proc as much as dodge or CA capped, but it was worse then either of them. I am not calling for immediate change. I am calling for a revision later on once the game is released to see and judge it's usefulness and true-meaning to it's description.

Posted by: fluor Jul 14 2007, 05:43 PM

srr i misswrote that a bit, what i meant to say was that blocking an attack means you still take the hit only less hard, while dodging means you don't get hit. it says it increases the chance of blocking an attack, so the more block the more chance you get hit less hard.

i agree it's less strong then the others, but a pikeman isn't meant to evade everything. a polearm weapon is made to block stuff(if needed) and a blocked attack takes more strength of you then 1 that doesn't hit you. (that's how i always saw it)

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jul 14 2007, 08:38 PM

(Colest;123912)
ROFLMAO. Yeah that's it I wanna bring about a new CU that's exactly what I want. I call for a little more usefulness out of block (considering its purpose compares not to CA or Dodge) and you claim that I am making the game unbalanced and I am promoting a bunch of game changes? Do NOT put words in my mouth and read my posts before you try to cut me down. Sorry if that was somewhat of a flame but there is nothing that pisses me off more then a person who says that change will lead to CU. ESPECIALLY on a TG forum of all places.... /rantoff


U miss-understood, i didn't mean to sound like im putting words into your mouth, seriously man, if it came across like that, apologies.

I didnt say you were making the game unbalanced, i said you wanted "more" equality in melee, by improving pikeman block etc which will head in the direction of the CU did, (balance) i didnt say it would and that you wanted a new CU.

(Colest;88641)
THIS IS NOT AN ARMOR NERF CALL but I think that DOT pikes should be MUCH more rare then they were. And really good ones even more rare.


(Colest;94465)
I say up the dmg a bit on leghit3 and Polearmhit3; and increase the dizzy stick for Polearmareaattack2.


(Colest;113851)
I don't think the DOT Wars Comp Clones will be as bad as Pre-CU was but if it does, I will soundly leave the game as I find the DOT days of Pre-CU as bad as NGE.


(Colest;123832)
Half of pikeman's problem is block is so incredibly worthless. States still stick and we don't even avoid ALL of the damage like other melee users do. It's somewhat ridiculous and it is something I hope gets revised after launch if snow and his gents doesn't figure something out.


From the impression i get from these, you want to balance out the melee proffesions by improving pikeman and removing DOTs so they are more "equal". That was the purpose of the CU (failed) and the NGE, thats how i got the assumption.

Posted by: Colest Jul 14 2007, 10:25 PM

(fluor;123993)
srr i misswrote that a bit, what i meant to say was that blocking an attack means you still take the hit only less hard, while dodging means you don't get hit. it says it increases the chance of blocking an attack, so the more block the more chance you get hit less hard.

i agree it's less strong then the others, but a pikeman isn't meant to evade everything. a polearm weapon is made to block stuff(if needed) and a blocked attack takes more strength of you then 1 that doesn't hit you. (that's how i always saw it)


I just want it to be actually practical like CA and Dodge. If that means upping the chance it has to proc then I am all for that. Just SOMETHING since as it stands, block (with it's horrible proc rate) is a pathetic secondary mod at best.

From the impression i get from these, you want to balance out the melee proffesions by improving pikeman and removing DOTs so they are more "equal". That was the purpose of the CU (failed) and the NGE, thats how i got the assumption.


Okay lemme pick at dis. Ideally, but I realize it isn't gonna happen, I'd like a SWG with capability to wear armor or no armor in PVP, DOTs would be used but would just be another way, yet equal to all the other ways, to damage a mob/player, and Pikeman's block being SOMEWHAT helped since as it stands it a rather pathetic excuse for a secondary mod since it hardly procs and when it does we still take dmg and states stick. This can be fixed by simply upping the proccing rate which I think most Pikeman will agree with me that the block mod even when capped was pretty useless.

I am one to call for change and improvement. Maybe a new move for a profession here or a new weapon there. But nothing radical. Spewing out radical ideas that would just promote flames is pointless since they WILL NOT HAPPEN.

I did not like Pre-CU when it was in it's last weeks of play. I didn't enjoy the fact that mostly all of the game was soloable. I didn't enjoy the fact that insanely good resources were monopolized and somewhat exploited to be substantially increased to produce insanely good krayt weapons (though some of the looted weapons were just too good) and armor resists that reached up 90% mitigation. I didn't enjoy hour long duels of tapping the same button over and over and over and over again. I enjoyed Pre-CU whenever you could PvP in or without armor. Buffs were at about 1k-1.5k so they didn't allow insanely great armor to be worn, and professions that were meant to be feared as heavy hitters (I.E. Commando, Pikeman (supposed to be second highest dmg melee profession), Bounty Hunter, etc.) played their role and actually were useful. But, some people share different views then me and some people interpret everything I just said in an entirely different light but that is just me.

I occasionally spew out something that I shouldn't (such as the call to increase leghit3 and polearmhit3 dmg) but the leghit call was mainly because I forgot leghit was broken Pre-CU...

EITHER OR, I want to simple summarize this up with I think the block mod should proc more then it does capped since it is not as useful as the other mods, ergo adding opportunities rather then forging them from broken remnants of opportunities.

/rantoff ohmy.gif

Posted by: Pegaso Platoon Jul 15 2007, 08:50 PM

(Colest;124148)
I just want it to be actually practical like CA and Dodge. If that means upping the chance it has to proc then I am all for that. Just SOMETHING since as it stands, block (with it's horrible proc rate) is a pathetic secondary mod at best.



Okay lemme pick at dis. Ideally, but I realize it isn't gonna happen, I'd like a SWG with capability to wear armor or no armor in PVP, DOTs would be used but would just be another way, yet equal to all the other ways, to damage a mob/player, and Pikeman's block being SOMEWHAT helped since as it stands it a rather pathetic excuse for a secondary mod since it hardly procs and when it does we still take dmg and states stick. This can be fixed by simply upping the proccing rate which I think most Pikeman will agree with me that the block mod even when capped was pretty useless.

I am one to call for change and improvement. Maybe a new move for a profession here or a new weapon there. But nothing radical. Spewing out radical ideas that would just promote flames is pointless since they WILL NOT HAPPEN.

I did not like Pre-CU when it was in it's last weeks of play. I didn't enjoy the fact that mostly all of the game was soloable. I didn't enjoy the fact that insanely good resources were monopolized and somewhat exploited to be substantially increased to produce insanely good krayt weapons (though some of the looted weapons were just too good) and armor resists that reached up 90% mitigation. I didn't enjoy hour long duels of tapping the same button over and over and over and over again. I enjoyed Pre-CU whenever you could PvP in or without armor. Buffs were at about 1k-1.5k so they didn't allow insanely great armor to be worn, and professions that were meant to be feared as heavy hitters (I.E. Commando, Pikeman (supposed to be second highest dmg melee profession), Bounty Hunter, etc.) played their role and actually were useful. But, some people share different views then me and some people interpret everything I just said in an entirely different light but that is just me.

I occasionally spew out something that I shouldn't (such as the call to increase leghit3 and polearmhit3 dmg) but the leghit call was mainly because I forgot leghit was broken Pre-CU...

EITHER OR, I want to simple summarize this up with I think the block mod should proc more then it does capped since it is not as useful as the other mods, ergo adding opportunities rather then forging them from broken remnants of opportunities.

/rantoff ohmy.gif


That made things more clear, if it sounded like i was ranting at you, i wasnt. Its just me disagreeing with certian things, like the DOT issue, to get them good DOTs you needed to spend hours AND hours getting them, it took commitment to get the "decent" ones, which i spent a lot of time doing, so i feel strongly about it when people just say we hide behind our DOTs (which i did NOT do) we worked hard for them and we deserved them. I think the biggest issue was when all the rich characters just went out and bought them in a day, putting no effort into getting them and just "owning" on the battlefield. Which also annoyed me.

I would also have to agree the early days of pvping was a LOT more fun, half templated TKA, commanders with there flamers and pets playing a huge role in pvp, the pic below says it all:


Posted by: antares Jul 16 2007, 11:43 AM

I'm in that screenshot somewhere near the camps. With my LVA of course.

Posted by: antares Jul 16 2007, 11:57 AM

When block (and doge and counterattack) were all increased so that their effect was actually noticeable, it didn't take long for us to notice how lopsidedly unfair pikeman had it. When looking at the stats and abilities of the melee professions at any point (and especially toward the end) of the pre-CU system, you have to keep in mind that the system was in flux and the stats were fluid.

What really got me was that pikeman's toughness was so low in combination with the block. It's the double low that really makes all the defensive calculations look grim for pikes. You only block a certain percentage of the time even with +125 block, and when you do block, you take 50% of the damage, of which only 26% is absorbed by the toughness. Add in the poor mitigation effect of our pikes (high max, low min) and the accuracy problems, and the damage output versus defense ratios look a little uneven.

Back to my statement about the fluidity of the stats and you'll see that the accuracy of the polearms was increased over earlier publishes and there were other things that could be done to mitigate the defense-offense balance. However, pikeman was never a really good defensive profession.

I once posted a long description of what I thought pikeman could be (this was before the CU surprise), and I thought, looking at how polearms are actually used, that the profession is fine with low toughness, but the ability to use the weapon as a defensive tool is tremendous for polearms. Far more than swords. I actually thought about how defense/offense should change depending on whether the player was using a staff or a pike, they are similar weapons but with very different purposes. Staff are more defensive and pikes much more offensive in nature.

Taking some damage from the blow of a block makes sense on some level, but the agility swinging a polearm around provides is mostly lost in the actualy numbers that were there at the end of pre-CU.

How this translates in praticality is a matter of discussion. Block should never have allowed 50% of the damage when successful, that should have been a lower percentage in my opinion. it was a outrage when we discovered that's what was happening.

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